Can You Lose Your Salvation?

[mousegunner]

I don't want you to get riled up and take this in the wrong way. This is meant in a friendly manner: Quoting a multitude of verses, without persuading analysis, means nothing and persuades no one.

It might also be said, that this point has been debated for thousands of years without one side convincing the other. So, I guess we will just have to wait until we get to Heaven, to see which way was truly Biblical. I will see you there someday, I'm sure!

[owens]

Matthew 7 verse 14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I dont think any of these apostles of the Bible joked with any of their scriptures.

[owens]

No sir, not riled I just want other people to see the way, The Lord will deal with their hearts, I am just man i will never try to persuade a man to believe , I will tell Gods word and they can accept it or not.

[owens]

Man will mess up but the Lord Jesus Christ will not.

[owens]

Mark 6 verse 11: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when you depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gommorrah in the day of judgement than for that city.

[owens]

I stand firm in my faith and will not have to wait for that day, I believe in every word of the Bible.

[mousegunner]

Do you get extra credit on this board for the number of posts you do? Just askin'

[owens]

Maybe with Jesus, I take salvation serious.

[huuf]

Salvation is not an accomplishment but rather a Soveriegn act of God's Will for each soul. When looking into the Scriptures its important to distinguish between Earthly Judgement (King David's punishment for instance after Bat Sheva) and Eternal Judgement for those who hate God. Remember King David's prayer "Create in me a clean heart O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from your presence and take not your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your Salvation and uphold me with your free Spirit". It pretty much says it all doesnt it ?"

If you go back to the Original Covenent with Avraham God put him into a deep sleep as God walked (alone) between the halves of the Bull. This signified that only God is bound to keep the Covenent and not Avraham.

Scripture says the following " No one comes to the Son except the Father Draw him" and elsewhere Jesus praised the Father saying "I praise you Father that not one that you have given me will be plucked from my hand"...

For these and many other reasons im confident that my soul is safe in Jesus hands !

Shalom, David

[owens]

2nd Peter verse 20: For if after thay have escaped the the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of rightenousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

This is talking about people that have escaped the world and then turned back to it.

22:But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The DOG IS TURNED TO HIS OWN VOMIT AGAIN; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2nd Peter chapter 3 verse 14:Wherefore, beloved, seeing that you look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Folks, How do you want to be found in that day????

[owens]

2nd Peter chapter 3 verse 17: Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.

Your own steadfastness not God's but your own steadfastness.

Covenant-an agreement, usually formal, between 2 or more persons to do or not do something specific.

God made his covenants with Israel and we now have the same covenants and he honored them as long as they were faithful to him, but when they worshipped other gods they were slaughtered in war, consumed with fire, and Moses had to intervene with the Lord to save the people because the Lord was done with them.

[iv0jn0b]

I am new here, and this is just my opinion, but Ephesians 2:8 & 9 says,
(King James Version)
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Not of works, I believe, would mean that there isn't anything that we can do to get to Heaven, except have faith. Going to church, etc., are "works". I believe that the only way a person could possibly become "unsaved", would be to stop having faith, or to denounce God, since we are saved "through faith".

[owens]

James 2And 20-But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21-Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Issac his son upon the altar?
24-You see then howthat by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Now days Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice and we an no longer have a priest sacrifice a ram or sheep on the altar.He don't ask for Issac our son like he did Abraham:He asks for pure obedience.
Romans 12-1 -I Beseech you therefore brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

[huuf]

Try to not cherry pick verses when you make citations but rather cite a larger block of scripture so the whole counsel of God might be considered. For instance here is the entire context of the verses you cited.

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

When i read the entire context here it seems to me what is being said is that Works are the Fruit of Faith and that Faith if the Fruit of works. In other words they are interconnected each perfecting the man.

Remember that James was talking to Jews who had been taught the Torah and to obey it from birth. They are/were the "cultivated branch" not the wild branch and as such were held to a different standard "To those who are given much, much is required".

My understanding of these writings by James (Yakov) in the context of Gentiles is that our Works are our report card on the level of our Faith. And conversely if we wish to grow in Faith we need to translate it into Works.

Scripture is clear elsewhere however that our Faith is not our own but a gift from God so no man might boat. Lastly keep if mind what Jesus said about the 4 types of Seed in the Gospel and how it was also written in 1John "19 {They went out from us}, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

In conclusion those who here and do not perservere were never "saved" but rather merely "called". I stand by the statement "Once Saved, always Saved" !

[owens]

I pray you guys are right , It will make getting to heaven so much easier because i dont see it an easy task.The whole Bible tells us how to live to make it in.Talks about endurance.I see it as once saved and now a living sacrifice.A covenant works 2 ways not just one.Yes salvation is only by the blood of Jesus and only he can give and take life.The Bible tells me the lord giveth and the lord taketh away.Many are called and few are chosen.I don't see it as easy as making a confession and not living my life as the Bible tells me to and tells us to endure to the end and the same shall be saved.thank God we were grafted in and are able too receive the same blessing as the chosen people Israel.They are our example.If Israel had had an example like we have to look back on they might not have messed up so much.They were the example for us to look back on and see the mistakes they made.Thank God we have an advocate with the Father to forgive us when we mess up.Bible says Repent and do thy first works over again.This willful sinning people do is just not going to work.Why get saved and hunt a church that will let you live like you did before you were saved.Once saved always saved is a man made term and not biblical, so I cant endure it.It has to be biblical.

[owens]

The reason I am getting the answers I have is because I am receiving the Bible as a whole and not taking certain scriptures and bending them for my life style.Look at what happened to the amalekites when Israel came out of Egypt.That is the same God I serve today. Hebrews 13-8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.!!!!!!

I challenge anyone person to show me in the Bible where it tells a person to serve a man made religion or denomination. From front to back i believe they will find- Colossians 2-8 Beware lest any man spoil through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

[huuf]

You cant earn Salvation it is a soveriegn act of our Eternal God who knows the End from the Beginning. The only things your Salvation depends on are:
1. God the Father's Promises.
2. Jesus' attoning Sacrifice.
3. The Gift of the Holy Spirit at your Baptism (lest you are Born Again...) and If youre the Thief on the Cross you didnt even nood to do that!
4. You clinging to the above and believing unto death and with perfect Faith that God will do what he said he will do.
5. Lastly that you humble yourself and admit you are a sinner in need of Jesus redemption.

Shalom, David

[owens]

Amen to the scripture ,Now put the rest of the Bible with it.
Romans 16 verse 17-Now I beseech you brethern, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18-For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19-For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

The Bible tells me I am dead to sin and have been freed from it. I am going to call myself a Christian not a sinner because that is what I was before I knew God.I am a new creature in Christ Jesus.The old man is dead.I dont practice sin , I practice righteousness.Are we going to mess up? Sure we are but it better be an accident and not saying I am a sinner.God made the term common since and I think he has common since.

[owens]

Revelation chapter 3 verse 1-And to the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
verse 2- Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
verse 3- Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent.If therefore thou shhalt not watch, I will come on the as a thief, and thou shall not know what hour I will come upon thee.
verse 4-Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
verse 5- He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Most important
verse 6-He that hath an ear, let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches.
God is speaking to the churches not sinners, do you have an ear and if so let him hear.

[owens]

Romans 12 verse 1- I beseech you therefore brethern, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto god, which is your reasonable service.

Let us be a living sacrifice, cant we give him that much.Let us call our self a christian not a sinner. A Christian saved by grace.We know we will mess up along the way and like he told the church in Revelations 3 to repent.

[owens]

Romans 6 verse 6-Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that hence forth we should not serve sin.
verse 7-For he that is dead is freed from sin.
verse 12- Let not sin therfore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

6 verse 16 very Important
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness.

let us be obedient and practice righteousness.

When you are freed from something I ddont think you wll be wanting bound again.

[owens]

Matthew 25 The parable of the ten virgins
If confession was all we needed the 5 foolish virgins wouldnt have been looking for oil when the door was closed on them.The 5 foolish said their lamps had gone out.So if they went out that would mean they were once burning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We know what the oil signifies and we know what the door was shut means.

2 verse 12-But he answered and said , Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

These were 10 virgins and 5 let their light go out or their lamp.They did not make it but thier light was burning before it went out.

Matthew 25

[owens]

Revelation 3 and 16: So then because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.

spew in Greek translation is vomit.This is what God is saying to the churchof Laodicea.

He tells them in 3 and 19 to repent and in verse 22 that is very important he says 22:He that hath an ear, let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches.

[owens]

Originally Posted by huuf

You cant earn Salvation it is a soveriegn act of our Eternal God who knows the End from the Beginning. The only things your Salvation depends on are:
1. God the Father's Promises.
2. Jesus' attoning Sacrifice.
3. The Gift of the Holy Spirit at your Baptism (lest you are Born Again...) and If youre the Thief on the Cross you didnt even nood to do that!
4. You clinging to the above and believing unto death and with perfect Faith that God will do what he said he will do.
5. Lastly that you humble yourself and admit you are a sinner in need of Jesus redemption.

Shalom, David

The thief on the cross was before Jesus gave up the ghost , therefore it was still before Grace.

[BAMAVOL]

I do not know the answer for sure. I like James "faith without works is dead" So if you claim salvation but do not live it, I think you have a problem. One could argue that your salvation was not genuine. Who is to say? This is an interesting question, but I am not sure that it is important. Remove all doubt. Walk the walk.

[owens]

I like that too bamavol, I guess all that Ananias and Sapphira needed was to be saved once when they lied to God.I guess all they needed was a confession when they lied to God.In this modern day what they done don't seem that bad to us but it cost them dearly. This story is in the 5th chapter of ACTS.

[BAMAVOL]

The story of Anaias and Sapphira has much to teach. Were they drawn to the words of Peter by honest searching or were they looking for a place where they could display their generosity and be seen? We see that God would not let their deciet harm the church. After this event people knew that this church was serious.

[Trackdog]

I mostly agree with owens. Salvation can be lost. The Lord gives it , but it's up to you not to walk away. If you put sin before God (you know it's wrong) you are chosing to turn away. None of us can be perfect, we are born into sin. Once saved and forgiven you are expected to walk the path of righteousness, however we all fail. We aren't forgiven for what we have committed until we humble or heart and turn back to God. If your salvation is a predisposed plan and you are not accountable then why preach to the masses in hopes that someone will give in to the Lord's call? It's up to us to chose salvation and the Lord gives it freely to all that will take hold.

[BAMAVOL]

We do not know everything. Mystery is a part of our faith. In fact if we knew all we would not need faith. We don't know, so get use to it. I can only trust the mercy of the all mighty. A lot of this is none of my business. The good news is that we don't need to know everything to know how to walk the walk.